Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V15_6/V15NO635.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 31KB

Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 05:27:04
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #635
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Tue,  5 Jan 93       Volume 15 : Issue 635

Today's Topics:
                 Astro/Space Frequently Seen Acronyms
               Orbital elements of junk in space wanted
                        Soviet space disaster?
                        Space List Flame Wars
                           SSTO vs 2 stage
        Stupid Shut Cost arguements (was Re: Terminal Velocity

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
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    (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle
    (THENET), or [e-mail] (Internet).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 93 06:02:17 GMT
From: Mark Bradford <[e-mail]>
Subject: Astro/Space Frequently Seen Acronyms
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,news.answers

Archive-name: space/acronyms
Edition: 8

Acronym List for sci.astro, sci.space, and sci.space.shuttle:
Edition 8, 1992 Dec 7
Last posted: 1992 Aug 27

This list is offered as a reference for translating commonly appearing
acronyms in the space-related newsgroups.  If I forgot or botched your
favorite acronym, please let me know!  Also, if there's an acronym *not*
on this list that confuses you, drop me a line, and if I can figure
it out, I'll add it to the list.

Note that this is intended to be a reference for *frequently seen*
acronyms, and is most emphatically *not* encyclopedic.  If I incorporated
every acronym I ever saw, I'd soon run out of disk space!  :-)

The list will be posted at regular intervals, every 30 days.  All
comments regarding it are welcome; I'm reachable as [e-mail].

Note that this just tells what the acronyms stand for -- you're on your
own for figuring out what they *mean*!  Note also that the total number of
acronyms in use far exceeds what I can list; special-purpose acronyms that
are essentially always explained as they're introduced are omitted.
Further, some acronyms stand for more than one thing; as of Edition 3 of
the list, these acronyms appear on multiple lines, unless they're simply
different ways of referring to the same thing.

Thanks to everybody who's sent suggestions since the first version of
the list, and especially to Garrett A. Wollman ([e-mail]),
who is maintaining an independent list, somewhat more verbose in
character than mine, and to Daniel Fischer ([e-mail]),
who is maintaining a truly HUGE list (535 at last count) of acronyms and
terms, mostly in German (which I read, fortunately).

Special thanks this time to Ken Hollis at NASA, who sent me a copy of NASA
Reference Publication 1059 Revised: _Space Transportation System and
Associated Payloads: Glossary, Acronyms, and Abbreviations_, a truly
mammoth tome -- almost 300 pages of TLAs.

Special Bonus!  At the end of this posting, you will find a perl program
written by none other than Larry Wall, whose purpose is to scramble the
acronym list in an entertaining fashion.  Thanks, Larry!

A&A: Astronomy and Astrophysics
AAO: Anglo-Australian Observatory
AAS: American Astronomical Society
AAS: American Astronautical Society
AAVSO: American Association of Variable Star Observers
ACE: Advanced Composition Explorer
ACRV: Assured Crew Return Vehicle (or) Astronaut Crew Rescue Vehicle
ADFRF: Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility (was DFRF) (NASA)
AGN: Active Galactic Nucleus
AGU: American Geophysical Union
AIAA: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
AIPS: Astronomical Image Processing System
AJ: Astronomical Journal
ALEXIS: Array of Low Energy X-ray Imaging Sensors
ALPO: Association of Lunar and Planetary Observers
ALS: Advanced Launch System
ANSI: American National Standards Institute
AOA: Abort Once Around (Shuttle abort plan)
AOCS: Attitude and Orbit Control System
Ap.J: Astrophysical Journal
APM: Attached Pressurized Module (a.k.a. Columbus)
APU: Auxiliary Power Unit
ARC: Ames Research Center (NASA)
ARTEMIS: Advanced Relay TEchnology MISsion
ASA: Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
ASI: Agenzia Spaziale Italiano
ASRM: Advanced Solid Rocket Motor
ATDRS: Advanced Tracking and Data Relay Satellite
ATLAS: Atmospheric Laboratory for Applications and Science
ATM: Amateur Telescope Maker
ATO: Abort To Orbit (Shuttle abort plan)
AU: Astronomical Unit
AURA: Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy
AW&ST: Aviation Week and Space Technology (a.k.a. AvLeak)
AXAF: Advanced X-ray Astrophysics Facility
BATSE: Burst And Transient Source Experiment (on CGRO)
BBXRT: Broad-Band X-Ray Telescope (ASTRO package)
BEM: Bug-Eyed Monster
BH: Black Hole
BIMA: Berkeley Illinois Maryland Array
BNSC: British National Space Centre
BTW: By The Way
C&T: Communications & Tracking
CCAFS: Cape Canaveral Air Force Station
CCD: Charge-Coupled Device
CCDS: Centers for the Commercial Development of Space
CD-ROM: Compact Disk Read-Only Memory
CFA: Center For Astrophysics
CFC: ChloroFluoroCarbon
CFF: Columbus Free Flyer
CFHT: Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope
CGRO: (Arthur Holley) Compton Gamma Ray Observatory (was GRO)
CHARA: Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy
CIRRIS: Cryogenic InfraRed Radiance Instrument for Shuttle
CIT: Circumstellar Imaging Telescope
CM: Command Module (Apollo spacecraft)
CMCC: Central Mission Control Centre (ESA)
CNES: Centre National d'Etude Spatiales
CNO: Carbon-Nitrogen-Oxygen
CNSR: Comet Nucleus Sample Return
COBE: COsmic Background Explorer
COMPTEL: COMPton TELescope (on CGRO)
COSTAR: Corrective Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement
CRAF: Comet Rendezvous / Asteroid Flyby
CRRES: Combined Release / Radiation Effects Satellite
CSM: Command and Service Module (Apollo spacecraft)
CSTC: Consolidated Satellite Test Center (USAF)
CTIO: Cerro Tololo Interamerican Observatory
DCX: Delta Clipper eXperimental
DDCU: DC-to-DC Converter Unit
DFRF: Dryden Flight Research Facility (now ADFRF)
DMSP: Defense Meteorological Satellite Program
DOD: Department Of Defense (sometimes DoD)
DOE: Department Of Energy
DOT: Department Of Transportation
DSCS: Defense Satellite Communications System
DSN: Deep Space Network
DSP: Defense Support Program (USAF/NRO)
EAFB: Edwards Air Force Base
ECS: Environmental Control System
EDO: Extended Duration Orbiter
EGRET: Energetic Gamma Ray Experiment Telescope (on CGRO)
EJASA: Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
ELV: Expendable Launch Vehicle
EMU: Extravehicular Mobility Unit
EOS: Earth Observing System
ERS: Earth Resources Satellite (as in ERS-1)
ESA: European Space Agency
ESO: European Southern Observatory
ET: (Shuttle) External Tank
ETLA: Extended Three Letter Acronym
ETR: Eastern Test Range
EUV: Extreme UltraViolet
EUVE: Extreme UltraViolet Explorer
EVA: ExtraVehicular Activity
FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions
FAST: Fast Auroral SnapshoT explorer
FFT: Fast Fourier Transform
FGS: Fine Guidance Sensors (on HST)
FHST: Fixed Head Star Trackers (on HST)
FIR: Far InfraRed
FITS: Flexible Image Transport System
FOC: Faint Object Camera (on HST)
FOS: Faint Object Spectrograph (on HST)
FRR: Flight-Readiness Review
FTP: File Transfer Protocol
FTS: Flight Telerobotic Servicer
FUSE: Far Ultraviolet Spectroscopic Explorer
FWHM: Full Width at Half Maximum
FYI: For Your Information
GAS: Get-Away Special
GBT: Green Bank Telescope
GCVS: General Catalog of Variable Stars
GEM: Giotto Extended Mission
GEO: Geosynchronous Earth Orbit
GDS: Great Dark Spot
GHRS: Goddard High Resolution Spectrograph (on HST)
GIF: Graphics Interchange Format
GLOMR: Global Low-Orbiting Message Relay
GMC: Giant Molecular Cloud
GMRT: Giant Meter-wave Radio Telescope
GMT: Greenwich Mean Time (also called UT)
GOES: Geostationary Orbiting Environmental Satellite
GOX: Gaseous OXygen
GPC: General Purpose Computer
GPS: Global Positioning System
GRO: Gamma Ray Observatory (now CGRO)
GRS: Gamma Ray Spectrometer (on Mars Observer)
GRS: Great Red Spot
GSC: Guide Star Catalog (for HST)
GSFC: Goddard Space Flight Center (NASA)
GTO: Geostationary Transfer Orbit
HAO: High Altitude Observatory
HD: Henry Draper catalog entry
HEAO: High Energy Astronomical Observatory
HeRA: Hermes Robotic Arm
HF: High Frequency
HGA: High Gain Antenna
HLC: Heavy Lift Capability
HLV: Heavy Lift Vehicle
HMC: Halley Multicolor Camera (on Giotto)
HR: Hertzsprung-Russell (diagram)
HRI: High Resolution Imager (on ROSAT)
HSP: High Speed Photometer (on HST)
HST: Hubble Space Telescope
HUT: Hopkins Ultraviolet Telescope (ASTRO package)
HV: High Voltage
IAPPP: International Amateur/Professional Photoelectric Photometry
IAU: International Astronomical Union
IAUC: IAU Circular
ICE: International Cometary Explorer
IDA: International Dark-sky Association
IDL: Interactive Data Language
IGM: InterGalactic Medium
IGY: International Geophysical Year
IMHO: In My Humble Opinion
IOTA: Infrared-Optical Telescope Array
IOTA: International Occultation Timing Association
IPS: Inertial Pointing System
IR: InfraRed
IRAF: Image Reduction and Analysis Facility
IRAS: InfraRed Astronomical Satellite
ISAS: Institute of Space and Astronautical Science (Japan)
ISM: InterStellar Medium
ISO: Infrared Space Observatory
ISO: International Standards Organization
ISPM: International Solar Polar Mission (now Ulysses)
ISY: International Space Year
IUE: International Ultraviolet Explorer
IUS: Inertial Upper Stage
JEM: Japanese Experiment Module (for SSF)
JGR: Journal of Geophysical Research
JILA: Joint Institute for Laboratory Astrophysics
JPL: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
JSC: Johnson Space Center (NASA)
KAO: Kuiper Airborne Observatory
KPNO: Kitt Peak National Observatory
KSC: Kennedy Space Center (NASA)
KTB: Cretaceous-Tertiary Boundary (from German)
LANL: Los Alamos National Laboratory
LaRC: Langley Research Center (NASA)
LDEF: Long Duration Exposure Facility
LEM: Lunar Excursion Module (a.k.a. LM) (Apollo spacecraft)
LEO: Low Earth Orbit
LeRC: Lewis Research Center (NASA)
LEST: Large Earth-based Solar Telescope
LFSA: List of Frequently Seen Acronyms (!)
LGA: Low Gain Antenna
LGM: Little Green Men
LH: Liquid Hydrogen (also LH2 or LHX)
LLNL: Lawrence-Livermore National Laboratory
LM: Lunar Module (a.k.a. LEM) (Apollo spacecraft)
LMC: Large Magellanic Cloud
LN2: Liquid N2 (Nitrogen)
LOX: Liquid OXygen
LRB: Liquid Rocket Booster
LSR: Local Standard of Rest
LTP: Lunar Transient Phenomenon
MB: Manned Base
MCC: Mission Control Center
MECO: Main Engine CutOff
MMH: MonoMethyl Hydrazine
MMT: Multiple Mirror Telescope
MMU: Manned Maneuvering Unit
MNRAS: Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society
MOC: Mars Observer Camera (on Mars Observer)
MOL: Manned Orbiting Laboratory
MOLA: Mars Observer Laser Altimeter (on Mars Observer)
MOMV: Manned Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle
MOTV: Manned Orbital Transfer Vehicle
MPC: Minor Planets Circular
MRSR: Mars Rover and Sample Return
MRSRM: Mars Rover and Sample Return Mission
MSFC: (George C.) Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA)
MTC: Man Tended Capability
NACA: National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics (became NASA)
NASA: National Aeronautics and Space Administration
NASDA: NAtional Space Development Agency (Japan)
NASM: National Air and Space Museum
NASP: National AeroSpace Plane
NBS: National Bureau of Standards (now NIST)
NDV: NASP Derived Vehicle
NERVA: Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application
NGC: New General Catalog
NICMOS: Near Infrared Camera / Multi Object Spectrometer (HST upgrade)
NIMS: Near-Infrared Mapping Spectrometer (on Galileo)
NIR: Near InfraRed
NIST: National Institute for Standards and Technology (was NBS)
NLDP: National Launch Development Program
NOAA: National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
NOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatories
NRAO: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
NRO: National Reconnaissance Office
NS: Neutron Star
NSA: National Security Agency
NSF: National Science Foundation
NSO: National Solar Observatory
NSSDC: National Space Science Data Center
NTR: Nuclear Thermal Rocket(ry)
NTT: New Technology Telescope
OAO: Orbiting Astronomical Observatory
OCST: Office of Commercial Space Transportation
OMB: Office of Management and Budget
OMS: Orbital Maneuvering System
OPF: Orbiter Processing Facility
ORFEUS: Orbiting and Retrievable Far and Extreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer
OSC: Orbital Sciences Corporation
OSCAR: Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio
OSSA: Office of Space Science and Applications
OSSE: Oriented Scintillation Spectrometer Experiment (on CGRO)
OTA: Optical Telescope Assembly (on HST)
OTHB: Over The Horizon Backscatter
OTV: Orbital Transfer Vehicle
OV: Orbital Vehicle
PAM: Payload Assist Module
PAM-D: Payload Assist Module, Delta-class
PI: Principal Investigator
PLSS: Portable Life Support System
PM: Pressurized Module
PMC: Permanently Manned Capability
PMIRR: Pressure Modulated InfraRed Radiometer (on Mars Observer)
PMT: PhotoMultiplier Tube
PSF: Point Spread Function
PSR: PulSaR
PV: Photovoltaic
PVO: Pioneer Venus Orbiter
QSO: Quasi-Stellar Object
RCI: Rodent Cage Interface (for SLS mission)
RCS: Reaction Control System
REM: Rat Enclosure Module (for SLS mission)
RF: Radio Frequency
RFI: Radio Frequency Interference
RIACS: Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science
RMS: Remote Manipulator System
RNGC: Revised New General Catalog
ROSAT: ROentgen SATellite
ROUS: Rodents Of Unusual Size (I don't believe they exist)
RSN: Real Soon Now
RTG: Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator
RTLS: Return To Launch Site (Shuttle abort plan)
SAA: South Atlantic Anomaly
SAGA: Solar Array Gain Augmentation (for HST)
SAMPEX: Solar Anomalous and Magnetospheric Particle EXplorer
SAO: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory
SAR: Search And Rescue
SAR: Synthetic Aperture Radar
SARA: Satellite pour Astronomie Radio Amateur
SAREX: Search and Rescue Exercise
SAREX: Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment
SAS: Space Activity Suit
SAS: Space Adaptation Syndrome
SAT: Synthetic Aperture Telescope
S/C: SpaceCraft
SCA: Shuttle Carrier Aircraft
SCT: Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope
SDI: Strategic Defense Initiative
SDIO: Strategic Defense Initiative Organization
SEI: Space Exploration Initiative
SEST: Swedish ESO Submillimeter Telescope
SETI: Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence
SID: Sudden Ionospheric Disturbance
SIR: Shuttle Imaging Radar
SIRTF: Space (formerly Shuttle) InfraRed Telescope Facility
SL: SpaceLab
SLAR: Side-Looking Airborne Radar
SLC: Space Launch Complex
SLS: Space(lab) Life Sciences
SMC: Small Magellanic Cloud
SME: Solar Mesosphere Explorer
SMEX: SMall EXplorers
SMM: Solar Maximum Mission
SN: SuperNova (e.g., SN1987A)
SNR: Signal to Noise Ratio
SNR: SuperNova Remnant
SNU: Solar Neutrino Units
SOFIA: Stratospheric Observatory For Infrared Astronomy
SOHO: SOlar Heliospheric Observatory
SPAN: Space Physics and Analysis Network
SPDM: Special Purpose Dextrous Manipulator
SPOT: Systeme Probatoire pour l'Observation de la Terre
SPS: Solar Power Satellite
SRB: Solid Rocket Booster
SRM: Solid Rocket Motor
SSF: Space Station Fred (er, Freedom)
SSI: Solid-State Imager (on Galileo)
SSI: Space Studies Institut
SSME: Space Shuttle Main Engine
SSPF: Space Station Processing Facility
SSRMS: Space Station Remote Manipulator System
SST: Spectroscopic Survey Telescope
SST: SuperSonic Transport
SSTO: Single Stage To Orbit
STIS: Space Telescope Imaging Spectrometer (to replace FOC and GHRS)
STS: Shuttle Transport System (or) Space Transportation System
STScI: Space Telescope Science Institute
SWAS: Submillimeter Wave Astronomy Satellite
SWF: ShortWave Fading
TAL: Transatlantic Abort Landing (Shuttle abort plan)
TAU: Thousand Astronomical Unit (mission)
TCS: Thermal Control System
TDRS: Tracking and Data Relay Satellite
TDRSS: Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System
TES: Thermal Emission Spectrometer (on Mars Observer)
TIROS: Television InfraRed Observation Satellite
TLA: Three Letter Acronym
TOMS: Total Ozone Mapping Spectrometer
TPS: Thermal Protection System
TSS: Tethered Satellite System
UARS: Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite
UBM: Unpressurized Berthing Mechanism
UDMH: Unsymmetrical DiMethyl Hydrazine
UFO: Unidentified Flying Object
UGC: Uppsala General Catalog
UHF: Ultra High Frequency
UIT: Ultraviolet Imaging Telescope (Astro package)
UKST: United Kingdom Schmidt Telescope
USAF: United States Air Force
USMP: United States Microgravity Payload
UT: Universal Time (a.k.a. GMT, UTC, or Zulu Time)
UTC: Coordinated Universal Time (a.k.a. UT)
UV: UltraViolet
UVS: UltraViolet Spectrometer
VAB: Vehicle Assembly Building (formerly Vertical Assembly Building)
VAFB: Vandenberg Air Force Base
VEEGA: Venus-Earth-Earth Gravity Assist (Galileo flight path)
VHF: Very High Frequency
VLA: Very Large Array
VLBA: Very Long Baseline Array
VLBI: Very Long Baseline Interferometry
VLF: Very Low Frequency
VLT: Very Large Telescope
VMS: Vertical Motion Simulator
VOIR: Venus Orbiting Imaging Radar (superseded by VRM)
VPF: Vertical Processing Facility
VRM: Venus Radar Mapper (now called Magellan)
WD: White Dwarf
WFPC: Wide Field / Planetary Camera (on HST)
WFPCII: Replacement for WFPC
WIYN: Wisconsin / Indiana / Yale / NOAO telescope
WSMR: White Sands Missile Range
WTR: Western Test Range
WUPPE: Wisconsin Ultraviolet PhotoPolarimter Experiment (Astro package)
XMM: X-ray Multi Mirror
XUV: eXtreme UltraViolet
YSO: Young Stellar Object


#!/usr/bin/perl
# 'alt', An Acronym Scrambling Program, by Larry Wall

$THRESHOLD = 2;

srand;
while (<>) {
    next unless /^([A-Z]\S+): */;
    $key = $1;
    $acro{$key} = $';
    @words = split(/\W+/,$');
    unshift(@words,$key);
    $off = 0;
    foreach $word (@words) {
        next unless $word =~ /^[A-Z]/;
        *w = $&;
        vec($w{$word}, $off++ % 6, 1) = 1;
    }
}

foreach $letter (A .. Z) {
    *w = $letter;
    @w = keys %w;
    if (@w < $THRESHOLD) {
        @d = `egrep '^$letter' /usr/dict/words`;
        chop @d;
        push(@w, @d);
    }
}

foreach $key (sort keys %acro) {
    $off = 0;
    $acro = $acro{$key};
    $acro =~ s/((([A-Z])[A-Z]*)[a-z]*)/ &pick($3, $2, $1, ++$off) || $& /eg;
    print "$key: $acro";
}

sub pick {
    local($letter, $prefix, $oldword, $off) = @_;
    $i = 0;
    if (length($prefix) > 1 && index($key,$prefix) < 0) {
        if ($prefix eq $oldword) {
            $prefix = '';
        }
        else {
            $prefix = $letter;
        }
    }
    if (length($prefix) > 1) {
        local(*w) = substr($prefix,0,1);
        do {
            $word = $w[rand @w];
        } until $word ne $oldword && $word =~ /^$prefix/i || ++$i > 30;
        $word =~ s/^$prefix/$prefix/i;
        $word;
    }
    elsif (length($prefix) == 1) {
        local(*w) = $prefix;
        do {
            $word = $w[rand @w];
        } until $word ne $oldword && vec($w{$word}, $off, 1) || ++$i > 10;
        $word = "\u\L$word" if $word =~ tr/a-z/A-Z/;
        $word;
    }
    else {
        local(*w) = substr($oldword,0,1);
        do {
            $word = $w[rand @w];
        } until $word ne $oldword && $word =~ tr/a-z/A-Z/ == 0 || ++$i > 30;
        $word;
    }
}


-- Mark Bradford ([e-mail]) <> To err is human, to moo bovine.
                  "It's an ill wind that gathers no moss."

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 93 19:59:00 GMT
From: Bruce Watson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orbital elements of junk in space wanted
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]| [e-mail] (Joachim Paganus) writes:
|I'm looking for a '2-line orbital elements list' of junk, i.e. deceased
|satellites, rocket-bodies and other debris that is still in orbit.
|I have one very old list, but where could I get a list that is up to
|date? (I don't know from where I got the list I have)
|
Two-line orbital elements for every unclassified object in orbit
are available on the Reports and Information Dissemination Remote
Bulletin Board System by modem. Phone [phone].
--
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom) Bulletin 629-49 Item 6700 Extract 75,131

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 93 02:27:43 GMT
From: Mark Stavar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soviet space disaster?
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.space,soc.culture.soviet

Charles Packer ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Somebody told me recently that they had read that the
: former Soviet Union had suffered a space disaster in which
: they had to leave one of their cosmonauts in orbit to die
: because they couldn't rescue him. My informant said that
: his information came from reading newspaper accounts of
: formerly secret material that was made public in the last
: couple of years during the unravelling of the Soviet system
: and the subsequent increase in openness of discussion and
: publication in Russia.

--

I recall reading that at some point earlyish in the Russian space
programme that there was a retro mis-fire on one of their missions.
This lead to the unfortunate situation of the space craft in question
flying off directly into the sun.  The story mentioned something about
the wife of the cosmonaut in question being in radio contact with him
up to the very end.

I have no hard material evidence with which to back up this story - it
may be plain wrong.

marks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Stavar
Mincom Pty Ltd
Juliette St
Brisbane Q Aust

Email:    [e-mail]

Ph: [phone]

#include    <std/disclaimer.h>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 93 04:52:26 GMT
From: Henry Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Space List Flame Wars
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] ("Phil G. Fraering") writes:
>   ... The people trying to push this off into
>   other newsgroups, which are accesible neither for posting
>   nor reading purposes to much of the internet population, are
>   IMHO either ignorant of the status quo or actively supporting
>   said status quo...

While I'm reluctant to disagree with Phil after his most complimentary
comments on my contribution :-), I'm afraid I have to here.

If your site does not get talk.politics.space, there is a reason.  Your
site administrators presumably have decided that they do not wish to
expend resources on political discussions.  (If the lack of the
group is just because they don't know their customers want it... have
you told them about it?)  Moving such discussions to sci.space is NOT
a desirable response -- it might make them shut off this group too, on
the grounds that it's too political.

There's always going to be some spillover of politics into sci.space,
because space is a very politics-driven field right now.  But we can
try to keep the knock-down-drag-out fights in talk.politics.space,
where they really do belong.
--
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 93 05:03:33 GMT
From: Graydon <[e-mail]>
Subject: SSTO vs 2 stage
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Edward V.
Wright) says:
>
>[me]
>>Rather depends on how many heavy cargoes there are, doesn't it?
>
>No, I don't think so.  Building and testing a new two-stage vehicle
>would be more expensive than building and testing a new one-stage
>vehicle.  So costs would be greater no matter how many, or how few,
>payloads you spread them out over.

Huh?  Rather depends on the vehicle, doesn't it?  And the design team,
and the funding situation, and...

The Bruce's proposal seemed to assume an off the shelf DC-1, with
all the mating hardware (or as much as possible) going on the
lower stage.

>>As I understand it, the point to an SSTO is to make expendables
>>non-cost effective.  So there *won't* be another vehicle fairly
>>soon after DC-1's get flying in numbers if they work as advertised.
>
>I don't think Boeing gave up when McDonnell Douglas introduced
>the DC-3.  If one company demonstrates a successful space
>transportation system that makes money, other companies
>won't let them have the market all to themselves for long.

This pre-supposes a significant market; what basis to believe
that there will be one do you have?  How many comsats are backlogged
waiting for launch?

>>If there's one or two heavy cargoes a year, Bruce's quick and simple
>>second stage might make a great deal more sense than scaling up
>>an SSTO design by a factor of five, which I would expect to be quite
>>difficult, since it's a complete re-design and probably needs new
>>engines.
>
>Bruce's "quick and simple" concept requires *two* new designs.
>You couldn't just put 5x the cargo into an existing DC-1.  Unless
>it was unusually dense, it wouldn't fit into the cargo bay.  Even
>if you could, the vehicle's balance would be off.  So you're talking
>a major redesign, then component testing of both the first and second
>stages, then testing both the first and second stages together....
>
>And I can't understand why a larger SSTO would need new engines
>while a TSTO with a comparable liftoff weight wouldn't.

What is the assumed specific gravity of a DC cargo?

The TSTO *does* need new engines; however, they might be more
readily available (being kerosene burners) than the whatever
a 50 tons to orbit SSTO needs.  (It won't be just more of what
DC-1 uses; square cube law and aerodynamics don't leave the bottom
of the cone having enough room.)

As for cargo stacking - hammer-headed payloads don't seem to
bother the expendables; I suspect that you don't need to redo
the entire vehicle.  I also suspect that the payload bay is
designed to have as much volume as it possibly can, to give
more leeway for odd structures.

The point is in any case moot in the abscence of a real engineering
study done *after* DC-1 flies.

Graydon

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 93 04:37:00 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Stupid Shut Cost arguements (was Re: Terminal Velocity
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes...

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brad Whitehurst) writes:
>
[stuff deleted]

>Shuttle isn't getting us anywhere. Wrose, is sucks up all the money we
>get preventing progress. DC can work but it may not work. We need alternatives.
>
Allen I put a question to you. Do you think that if we grounded the Shuttle
permanently tomorrow, laid off all personell involved in the Shuttle's overhead
and began work on the DC series that the rest of the money would be available
for other uses in space? If you think so, which seems to be your underlying
premise in advocating your scenario, then I respectfully submit that you are
mistaken. Especially now in the fiscal climate that exists today in the
US government, the money would simply be diverted to the same old bread and
circuses game that we have lived with for twenty years. My evidence? During
the Non flight years of the US space program from 75 to 81 the budget was about
1/3 what it is today, even allowing for inflation. Only when the shuttle
began ramping up did the workforce increase and the budgets begin to rise.
Additionally, the program did not get any further increases until a large
manned program, (Space Station) begin. There were plenty of opportunities during
the seventies to increase other areas of the space budget, this did not happen.
They even were further curtailed. The dearth of planetary explorers has its
origin during the years when manned space was at an ebb. The budget for the
other programs that are wonderfully worthy such as MO, Galielo and others
only happened after the manned program became robust again.

Again, I support the DC program, it should be funded. You are not considering
political reality if you think that the sacrifice of the billions spent on
shuttle would gain the DC program a dime however. The DC would have to grow
in ways that would immediately put it back into the realm of the shuttle
in its systematic costs. If we can keep the DC as a low ball effort then
we might keep the spec changers away from it long enough to develop it as a
viable complement, later a suppliment, lastly a replacement for the shuttle.
This is a worthy goal for the program, but it will not happen if it becomes
the focus of attention that you wish it to be.

>
>>Would everything go to
>>Russia for launch, and depend on an uncertain foreign infrastructure,
>>or convert part of Canaveral to launch Russian rockets?
>
>We don't use Russian rockets; we use Atlas or Titan. Both routinely rebuild
>their launchers to conform to payload interface requirements and NASA's
>evaluation of Soyuz as ACRV indicate that using Soyuz with US aerospace
>standards isn't a problem.
>

The point of this statment Allen is that if we really want to do it for the
lowest price available then we should just contract out our space program
to our Russian friends. Then we, vicariously could sit back and smile as we
watch the first Russian cosmonauts land on Mars in a few years courtesy of
money supplied by us. This would be the logical end to your whole plan of
cost reduction.




>>Can you get enough power and life support from Soyuz/Mir for
>>5-6 people + our experiments?
>
>Send them to an industrial space facility. We have build space stations
>before and replacing Shuttle's limited ability in orbit shouldn't be
>hard. We already have Spacehab and Spacelab and it shouldn't be hard
>to add power and facilities to them. Keeping the lab in orbit will allow
>greater utilization and cut costs even more.
>


You always toss of the problems of systems that you think are theoretically
superior to the Shuttle. As an engineer that will be installing a payload
in the spacehab module in 72 hours let me tell you that what you are saying
is far from reality. All Spacehab is is a pressure vessel. To maintain its
structural integrity for holdin air, it relys on its structural supports
connected to the shuttle. This is just for beginners. It totally depends on
power from the Shuttle. This goes also for thermal control, atmosphere and
control of the experiments via either direct astronaut intervention or
control from the middeck. All Spacehab is, is an extension of the middeck
lockers. IT would cost several hundred million just to make it into a free
flyer. Then you would have all of the problems relating to the fact that
none of the experiments are designed to be removed on orbit.

So Allen please try to look at things from a slightly wider perspective.

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville.

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 635
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